Curse

Ensign · Feb 16, 2008, 09:42 PM // 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syron

2% or 4% won't do much, as both teams already have 25% at VoD, but if you manage to have a huge npc-advantage you'd still be rewarded.

You are already rewarded with a huge NPC advantage that gives you control of the flagstand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Weren't Storm Djinn's and Pious Haste the best speed boosts?

For a flagger? No. They were the best speed boosts for cross-map track stars though, if that's what you wanted.

itsme · Feb 16, 2008, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riotgear

Weren't Storm Djinn's and Pious Haste the best speed boosts?

I'd consider dark escape and dash superior to djinn's or pious because with dark escape I find it easier to push flags in without getting kicked and dash is pretty nice for dodging melees.
Pious Haste was a bit superior in terms of speed but it kept eating your prots (which didn't really matter) as well as your energy (which did matter)....

shoogi · Feb 17, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

Skill updates are all very good.
I would personally like to see ViO removed completely though.

aapo · Feb 17, 2008, 02:37 PM // 14:37

I really like Victory is Ours. It rewards those teams that have been winning for the past 18 minutes and reduces the impact of lame Guild Lord ganks. It was just horrible playing 30 minute match and ending it on gank.

Divinus Stella · Feb 17, 2008, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

I really like Victory is Ours. It rewards those teams that have been winning for the past 18 minutes and reduces the impact of lame Guild Lord ganks. It was just horrible playing 30 minute match and ending it on gank.

So winning is having your whole team heavily DP'd because you have been doing nothing but suicide runs on NPCs all game?

aapo · Feb 17, 2008, 03:48 PM // 15:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

So winning is having your whole team heavily DP'd because you have been doing nothing but suicide runs on NPCs all game?

- I really don't understand what you're talking about.

Barbie goes guru · Feb 17, 2008, 03:57 PM // 15:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by aapo

- I really don't understand what you're talking about.

- I'm really not suprised

The Meth · Feb 17, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

So winning is having your whole team heavily DP'd because you have been doing nothing but suicide runs on NPCs all game?

By that he means that ViO isn't just rewarding those teams who do kill npcs, its punishing and ultimately destroying teams who don't. Even if the other team is controlling the stand much better and you are getting behind in DP, it doesn't matter because at VoD having even a 1 npc advantage gives you enough to be ahead.

How about instead of a flat bonus, at VoD both teams get a full ViO effect of 15%, which then scales down by 1% for every npc killed?

red orc · Feb 17, 2008, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

So winning is having your whole team heavily DP'd because you have been doing nothing but suicide runs on NPCs all game?

Yes. This is the current game.
But you can avoid it. Do a guild lord rush, he will stop to fight you and you can end the game far from the other team's NPCS. This way their DP will be significant.

Divinus Stella · Feb 17, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

ViO is nothing about which team is winning, its about who has more NPCs alive, usually you will be facing a sinsplit who will do nothing but shadow step in and out of your base all game trying to kill archers while the main team just sits at the stand and waits for VoD with obscene amounts of defence.

The build has no intention of going for the lord or fighting, just farming NPCs, it doesnt matter if the split ends up on 60DP as a result, aslong as they have 1 more NPC in their base than you do its fine.

Kaon · Feb 17, 2008, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

The build has no intention of going for the lord or fighting, just farming NPCs, it doesnt matter if the split ends up on 60DP as a result, aslong as they have 1 more NPC in their base than you do its fine.

Don't overreact. 1 NPC isn't going to do anything if you have a superior 8v8 build in vod.

TheOneMephisto · Feb 17, 2008, 06:58 PM // 18:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Don't overreact. 1 NPC isn't going to do anything if you have a superior 8v8 build in vod.

But a rather large damage increase quite possibly will. Which is what 1 NPC creates.

kosh · Feb 17, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaon

Don't overreact. 1 NPC isn't going to do anything if you have a superior 8v8 build in vod.

qftw.

the other day i was obs [spnv] run the sinaptitude build vs r 800 guild running balance/byob. as it turn out spnv wipe all the npc (but the bodyguard), the r 800 killed a few but had trouble going trough to the inner npc at base .at vod spnv had about just most of their npc, and still got WIPED and stand. the other team managed to agrro carefully (knights&bods guards 1st). after killing all the spnv npc, spnv had no way to deal with 8v8 at stand. i was so happy seeing bunch of new ppl wiping a rank 12 guild that run shity/gimmic builds ( not to mention coming from the the stick side at vod/vio and winning.)

hope is never lost.

Divinus Stella · Feb 17, 2008, 09:22 PM // 21:22

I didnt intend to give the impression that ViO auto wins games, it just rewards teams for splitting.

I dont see why it was added, its not as if theres ever a stalemate at the stand during VoD, its usually all over by the time the lord starts walking, why not just leave the result of the game up to players rather than the archers.

IMMORTAlMITCH · Feb 17, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOneMephisto

But a rather large damage increase quite possibly will. Which is what 1 NPC creates.

ViO swings if the NPC situation changes.

moko · Feb 17, 2008, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by kosh

qftw.

the other day i was obs [spnv] run the sinaptitude build vs r 800 guild running balance/byob. as it turn out spnv wipe all the npc (but the bodyguard), the r 800 killed a few but had trouble going trough to the inner npc at base .at vod spnv had about just most of their npc, and still got WIPED and stand. the other team managed to agrro carefully (knights&bods guards 1st). after killing all the spnv npc, spnv had no way to deal with 8v8 at stand. i was so happy seeing bunch of new ppl wiping a rank 12 guild that run shity/gimmic builds ( not to mention coming from the the stick side at vod/vio and winning.)

hope is never lost.

way to call a [sup] smurf with guests from [LaX] and stuff new players.

also, SpNv lost because they decided not to finish off the Lord when they had the chance to.

still -- this was the first game i played (and saw) where ViO made near to no difference at all.

but yeah, ViO is too much of the NPC love. and when you manage to get a boost through, you'll be more than fine.

Ensign · Feb 18, 2008, 12:55 AM // 00:55

The new ViO does not singlehandedly win games like the old ViO did. I still don't like the mechanic and think that it detracts from GvG, but it has been reduced from a disaster that blatantly ruined the format to one that subtly does.

ChopChop · Feb 18, 2008, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

why not just leave the result of the game up to players rather than the archers.

One would think that in a pvp game the outcome should be determined by the players and not NPC AI..
Common scenario is now that one teams archers spread out damage and doesn't hurt anything while the other teams archers (randomly) ends up focus firing something that explodes... kind of silly to watch really

Akaraxle · Feb 18, 2008, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ensign

Victory is Ours is still a testament to A.Net's inability to reject bad ideas.

This is something that baffles me: how seldom bad ideas are reverted (PLeak being one rare example) and how often they are worked on in an inane attempt to fix them, only ending up piling more and more trash on a core that was trash to begin with.

You know, sorta like what Microsoft has been doing with their OS's. Eventually you get to a point where the idea is finally acceptable and usable, but is it optimal and was the effort worth it?

Quote:

Always has been safe to buff. I'm not really sure why it hasn't when stuff like Whirlwind or Chilling Winds gets meaningless buffs, Windborne is one of the most interesting speed boosts available and it's a shame it's been languishing for so long.

I love Windborne Speed. Yes, I'm biased enough towards the skill that my guild specifically forbade me from crippling myself by running it over the ridiculously stronger Storm Djinn's when NF came out.

It is the perfect example of a good skill in Guild Wars: simple, versatile and multi-purpose; good when cast on runners, warriors and monks alike. Just like a single 3s Gale put on an Ele.

red orc · Feb 18, 2008, 09:46 AM // 09:46

I like very much the new VIO.
It enables balanced groups that can split to play. It enable you to run without a paragon and still win. The group that is more proactive and more aggresive can win now, where before the paragons forced you to 18min of boredom.